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If you actually ARE in the 99%, there is a perfectly good reason, but the truth may hurt.

October 20, 2011 5:03 pm GMT -5

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97 thoughts on “If you actually ARE in the 99%, there is a perfectly good reason, but the truth may hurt.”

  1. What you’re talking about is culture, and yes it does exist for some things. The issue is that people are manipulated and don’t know any better. Take this whole 99%/53% thing. If people stopped fighting just for the sake of liking to be on one side or another and actually looked at the real issues, we might make cultural progress. There’s SO much obfuscation that takes place that it’s quite impossible to know what’s really true.

    A great example is the coal estimates for America I heard thrown about during the whole Cap & Trade debate. A study was done in the late 80s said “America has 500 years of coal.” This is true, from a certain point of view. First of all, it’s lowest quality grain-type coal and it takes substantially more to achieve the same heat output than the higher quality types that have pretty much been exhausted. Secondly and most importantly, the qualifying detail is that this is true *only if there is no growth in coal consumption.* But wait, growth is everything! Factoring in exponential economic growth, that coal reserve  will actually last between 36-42 years, and we’re already halfway though the larger of those two numbers. But that doesn’t stop people from using that first statistic in a way that suits them.

    People do indeed have the ability to know right from wrong, but that ability is abused daily and it’s quite forgivable when I see people repeating bullshit they got from what should be a reliable source. While people may be able to discern what is correct morally or socially, digging down into exponential growth formulas turns the typical voter to watching Glee.

    As for Starbucks, I’m not sure I agree that they’ve done anything wrong except leverage better financing into overwhelming marketing. I don’t go there and neither should you. That’s the kind of down-home culture you’re looking for.

  10. This is what I like to see.  Intelligent, thought provoking discussion.  Mixed in with a little stupid shit like the comments eek posts of course.

  11. What we really need is a new system where people regulate the businesses rather than laws. For example, consider a company like Starbucks. Ask any person on the street what they think about that company and they’ll tell you that they are assholes who ran every other coffee shop out of business. But Starbucks never actually broke any laws so they got away with it. So we have this really bizarre situation where a company does something that literally everyone knows is wrong, the only exception being our system of blind justice. So the only way to stop Starbucks from doing this would be to pass a new law, but they will pay to lobby against it or at least delay its passing long enough for them to find a loophole. We just keep having to make more and more laws and the businesses keep finding ways to circumvent them, and we can only have so many laws before we turn into a big socialist nightmare where nobody can do anything.

    So I was thinking, since we have a population of people who are capable of objectively knowing right from wrong, why can’t we use that to govern businesses? Like for example, there’s no specific laws that I know of that say you can’t eat people and masturbate on their corpses but Jeffrey Dahmer was still tried and convicted because everyone can objectively agree that it is wrong to do things like that. So why can’t we all come together and say “No, you are not allowed to fuck people over and get rich selling shitty products” and shut down Starbucks for unethical business practices? Why can’t we shut down Best Buy for scamming its customers with their fake internal website, and shut down car companies who get away with murder because its cheaper to get sued than do a recall on defective cars? It could all be stopped if we just had a justice system that was able to say “you may have not broken a specific law, but you’re still an asshole and you’re going to jail.”
    Of course it wouldn’t work for everything; everyone has their own opinions about abortion and drug laws and whatnot, but there are a lot of big problems that don’t get fixed, even though everyone is full agreement that they should be.

  12. Then by all means, continue.  And don’t kid yourself, responding to you is easy peasy and nothing BUT fun for me.  And you can’t really win. I will always win because you are constrained by your idiotic Liberal sense of political correctness and you don’t have any imagination. Watch……..

    You are a big retarded nigger queer Nazi. 

    I win.

  13. The accuracy thing was a fair point I mean I am totally with the occupy wall street movement, but still that was a valid point. The only thing is at the end when he says the lack of complete fairness and equality is a good thing and Darwin would tell you that nonsense. First of all I don’t believe anyone with a healthy brain believes society should function the same way evolution does. Second why is a lack of fairness a good thing? It is just a dumb thing to say I mean ideally things should be fair. Normally I advocate the idea that everyone should be able to have their own opinions, but this is just too stupid. Everyone should have equal opportunity no one is asking for equal results. Tolland man my instincts are telling me you are full of shit haha.  

  14. Unfortunately for you, the lack of complete fairness IS a good thing for society.  Because in a completely  fair world, no one would have any advantage over another.  The weak minded (such as yourself) would have the same opportunities as a genius.  Hiring would be done by drawing names from a basket, with everyone having the same chance at the office of the Presidency or position of Janitor. The time and money wasted letting you fuck up as a 7-11 clerk, a cab driver, or a phone solicitor would be multiplied by the millions just as stupid as you, and then where would we be?   There is no fair, and there will never be any fair because being fair to one is being unfair to another. And being fair to dumb-asses like you would be unfair to fucking multitudes. Get it? 

    Your instincts tell you I’m full of shit? Well, your lack of ability to understand tells me to ignore you.

    Fair enough? 

  15. What is frustrating about opposition to
    OWS is that it usually works under the assumption that the majority
    of people are just cry babies or don’t want to work. While there are
    always going to be people who don’t want to work, it wouldn’t make
    sense to think these are the same people willing to literally risk
    their necks at the protests (unless that is common amongst lazy
    people, the desire to be maced, beaten, and incarcerated; it would be
    news to me). No one is protesting hard work or self-reliance. People
    are protesting that for a great number of Americans, this hard work
    and self-reliance is going unrecognized, in a variety of ways. No one
    is disputing the fact a good life must be earned, just the increasing
    unlikelihood that the average citizen will be able to enjoy: access
    to basic medical care, having children, affording a home, and the
    list goes on. No one is asking for handouts, people are just trying
    to secure what our predecessors fought long and hard for us to have
    (if we choose to work for it), things like safe working conditions,
    the classic three 8’s (8 hours work, 8 hours sleep, 8 hours leisure),
    secure employment, the possibility of retiring one day, etc. It helps
    to think of your situation, and then think how much more complicated
    it could be with the simple flick of the switch. I may be doing
    alright now, but what if I had a kid, or didn’t finish college, or I
    was black, or I had a back injury? Simple exercises like this help
    (me at least) bridge the solipsistic gap that is constantly widened
    by the media and other propaganda machines. The system shouldn’t be
    set up in a way that the majority of the public are perched on the
    precipice of debt slavery or homelessness, simply because they are
    alive. There have been studies showing that the overwhelming majority
    of bankruptcy filings in this country are preceded by a serious
    medical incident. This movement really should be a lot less
    controversial than it is. I don’t think the majority of people, when
    they think about it, can really oppose it, and I think that is why it
    is constantly being painted by the media as some neo-hippie trust
    fund movement consisting of people who haven’t really worked or
    suffered (or whatever stands in the way of their message being valid
    to the media; its funny they never mention who is worthy of
    protesting in their eyes), because you can’t really attack the
    message (unless you hate the idea of a standard of living and human
    rights) you can really only denigrate the individuals involved. I
    agree with you on many things Tolland Man, but I don’t think anyone
    is calling for the creation of some utopian land where everyone
    magically makes it and has a wonderful life, just for a place where
    even the possibility of a decent life isn’t just fantasy for the
    majority of people. If they are, I don’t agree with them.

    tl;dr
    OWS isn’t about handouts, it’s about maintaining a standard of
    living(for those who work) that was fought for tooth and nail.



  17. ” and shut down car companies who get away with murder because its cheaper to get sued than do a recall on defective cars? It could all be stopped if we just had a justice system that was able to say “you may have not broken a specific law, but you’re still an asshole and you’re going to jail.” 
    you should look up Nader. He’s a consumer advocate. He forced seat belt regulation and car safety on vehicle manufacturers.

  18. Okay I was wrong I thought you were trolling but you actually are just stupid. I said equal opportunity not equal results which does not mean an idiot would be able to become president. If you were capable of thinking critically about what you read then you would understand what I said. Equal opportunity not equal results. Complete fairness does not mean everyone gets the same results it just means everyone has the opportunity to try. Everyone should be able to get an education and fail or succeed. The problem is that there are people who have lots of potential and none of the resources. Oh and now that I think about it we did have an idiot president for 8 years remember? He was by no means an “A” student but he was fucking president because he had money and name recognition due to his father being a former president. Fairness means the most qualified for the job get the job not the people with the most money and influence. Fairness means you earn your position, but that we all have an opportunity to earn that position that is equal  regardless of the economic status you were born into. Get it?

  19. You’re right. You did say opportunity.  My fucking point was:

    I did not say opportunity. I said fairness. YOU said opportunity.

    I understood what you wrote, and you were twisting my points just as much as I twisted yours…. so, fuck you if you can dish it out but you can’t take it. Typical Liberal. I stand by everything I have written. This fairness you propose means that the most qualified always get the job, but the what about Blacks and Women.  How long would they have stayed marginalized?  You are the one with a critical thinking deficit. Get it?

  21. Ya got me! I think it’s more, hasn’t learned, rather than cant, though I would be up for a lesson. Seems like a good skill to have in this modern world. I do wish my post elicited more than a joke from you though.

  22. Your otherwise admirable post was perhaps too large a bite.  I believe that virtually everyone simply choked. Sometimes I think it is best to just throw out a little salty piece of gristle, as I do.  The dogs will actually FIGHT over that. 

  24. You’re welcome.  I find the best dissenting response is usually to just call someone a fucking idiot in an amusing and entertaining way, and be done with it.  But then again, I’m kind of a fucking idiot, ya know?

  25. I wouldn’t say that at all. If anything, I would say you are a smart cat with a great sense of humor who lays it on too thick for some people’s taste.

  27. That is true, I don’t know the whole picture, I’m only speaking from my experiences of you on this fine site. I suppose we all have a bit of fucking idiot in us, some more than others, some less. Your style does take some getting used to, I must admit. It is quite an acquired taste. Not saying people who don’t get it are less evolved or dumb or anything. I do appreciate anyone who forces people to examine their own views, even if the methods involved are as atypical as yours.

  28. “Not saying people who don’t get it are less evolved or dumb or anything”?  Why not? C’mon… Go ahead.  I promise it will feel good.  I won’t tell. Try it.  If you don’t like it we’ll forget the whole thing, kay? 

  30. My intention was not to twist your point I think we just have a different interpretations on the meaning of the word fair. I don’t believe that African Americans(haha make your liberals have to be so politically correct joke I know you want to) or Women did anything unfair in order to to over come their obstacles (by the way I think there is still progress to be made). I do know something we would agree on though and that is that hiring based on gender or race for any reason is unfair and counterproductive because it only creates more prejudice. I think the most fair option would be to create programs that give people of lower economic status access to the same education as people of higher economic status and then higher based only on qualification. Eliminate unfair advantages that being born into money or being born a white male gives you and you will have all the diversity you need in any work place or school. You don’t have to just accept people based on their gender or race you just have to give those that have less opportunity equal opportunity. My point is that results are to be earned but opportunity should be their for everyone that means no marginalization of any group.

    Still think I am not thinking critically? I don’t consider Liberal an insult. I mean would you be insulted if I called you a Conservative or an independent or whatever you are? I take what you say just fine I am just not about to say yes sir you’re right I am a dumb ass haha. I don’t really believe you can’t think critically I just think you didn’t think critically when responding to my comment because you are not used to people deffending their points effectively. Maybe it was unfair of me to call you stupid for the fairness thing without thinking about how you may interperate the word. I believe though that deep down every smart person with a healthy capacity for empathy is a progressive(or at least holds many progressive views) and I am sure you are one of those people. Hope you don’t consider that an insult haha.  

  31. You seriously think hiring based on race or gender is unfair because it “produces more prejudice“?  What a fucking pussy-ass Liberal cop out! And you wonder why I consider being called Liberal an insult?. You cannot bring yourself to admit that hiring quotas based on race or gender instuituted so that a woman or a Negro (hate that word or just afraid to use it?) will get the job are unfair in every sense of the word to any better qualified person that is being discriminated against. That is the person that you don’t even take into consideration. Why? Because as much as you will try and deny it, YOU are obviously prejudiced. Even though you know those quotas are just plain wrong, you must try to justify their existence because it is the “Liberal” thing to do. Believe me, I have faced better informed and better educated opposition than you. Sometimes I was proven wrong, and I have certainly had to eat my words and admit defeat in more that one unhappy instance in my life.  That’s why I now attempt to argue passionately only for positions that I am completely comfortable defending. As you get older and mature, I hope you learn to do the same.  If you choose to argue with me, on my post, and think you can backpedal because you have a different definition of “fair” than I, you better pack a fucking lunch…. and include a nice dessert… because I’m gonna eat it.

  34. It really would be  easy for them. I would far rather have a kind, thoughtful, respectful discussion than just call someone a shitslurping idiot, and make references as to their parentage, but it seems not many are interested.  Okay, okay…. I know…  it’s probably because I start out calling someone a shitsluping inbred idiot in my opening line, but it’s really  not my fault,  it’s my Typing Tourette’s Syndrome.  I’m trying to get a pussy asshole dick handle on it though. Wish me fucking luck!

  37. I wouldn’t call myself a musician, more like a goober who tries to make music. I have been trying to figure out the guitar for almost 8 years now. Did you have a listen when I posted that link to my music a bit ago? I would love some feedback if you did! Do you try to play anything?

  38. I’ve been in the Music business for about 40 years.  Yeah, I listened a little, but my streaming is so slow right now that it’s incredibly irritating to try and listen with any critical purpose.  I would be happy to listen to it all and discuss it at length after my connection gets back up to snuff around the third of November.   But you’ll have to remind me,  I’m  uh……… ummmm….  forgetful?  I think that’s the word I wanted to use.  

  39. Thanks Tolland, what do you do in the business? Did you enjoy the little? Sorry about your connection. I will definitely remind you, I would enjoy getting some honest feedback from you.

  40. Yes, I did enjoy what I heard. I’ll have to hear a lot more before I could possibly draw any conclusions though. What did I do? In all those years, a lot of different things.  Began with just playing guitar in little bands at parties and stuff, then went on to working in music stores and recording studios, session recording, producing, arranging, repairing instruments, buying, selling, and collecting instruments, owned a music store for a while, managed a Grammy winning recording studio for a few years, owned a sound company, worked as a live sound and recording engineer, I imported and distributed guitars throughout North America for a while, and worked for everybody from Paul Reed Smith to Tom Scholz, to Greg Mackie as an independent manufacturer’s representative covering VA, WV, MD, DE, PA, and parts of NJ,  all the while still playing guitar regionally live and in the studio. Shhiiiitttt…. I just couldn’t keep a job I guess LOL. 


  41. My fuck, that is some career! So are you currently out of the old music game? Now I am nervous as hell. Here goes my feeble attempt to cover my ass. Most of these recordings are just rough sketches. They lack: mixing, mastering, bass, live drums, I could go on but you get the idea. Not saying I don’t stand by them, just that they are what they are. I only recently purchased a recording interface and these are all old ideas I have had lurking in my head for a while. Now I am going to be biting my nails until you hear my stuff haha. How old are you, if you don’t mind me asking?

  42. One of the amazing things about the modern age that nobody seems to acknowledge is music is finally free, not just to download illegally, but also to produce and promote. You can make a whole album and the only thing you have to pay for is the equipment and software, which you could also download illegally. Then you can put it on Youtube or something and it will find an audience. Then if you get popular enough, people will buy your mp3s, or cd, or vinyl; even though it can be downloaded illegally, people will buy it just because they want to support you and see another great album in the future. Compare that when 20 years ago when a band with great talent couldn’t get anywhere because they were short on cash and needed a recording engineer, they needed someone to promote them, they needed to get a radio station to play their single. And to do any of this, they pretty much had no choice but to get signed with a record company who rips them off and perverts their music to make it more marketable.

    I’m originally from Houston and back in the 90s there were a lot of great rap artists there who couldn’t get famous because record companies at the time were not interested in rappers who weren’t from California or New York. So these guys just did everything themselves – they recorded their own cassette tapes and paid for their own equipment and sold crack cocaine to get funding. They became well known in the Houston area, and once the internet became popular they put their music on MySpace and their careers took off and now they are famous all over the world. And of course now the record labels are trying to reproduce that kind of success and they are failing miserably and losing money every year.

  44. Believe me you have nothing to worry about.  Artistry does not have to be polished to perfection to be pleasing, thought provoking, or otherwise enjoyable. And originality is not measured in number of hours mixing, type of microphone used, or any of that shit.  If what you really want to do is produce art, my friend you are already there. If what you want to do is crank out platinum albums, and top 100 hits,  please figure out an easy way, and then please hire me to work for you. Hell, I’ll drive your car if you want. Anyway, I began playing in the 60’s.  I am 55 years old.  And yes, it’s been an amazing “carreer”.  I have had an absolute blast.

     

    I think I’m 55.  Maybe I’m 65…..  where are my pills?

  45. You are really confusing you seem to be switching back and forth between agreeing with those programs and disagreeing and then calling me a liberal in between I just don’t understand what your position is but I will try to explain mine again. I did admit that they are unfair I am the one who said that haha. I mean are you saying you have a problem with the reason I said it was unfair? Of course I take into consideration the fact that sometimes a better qualified person is missing out on a job because of these quota’s (although I am sure it is not that often) that is one of these reasons I feel it is unfair. I didn’t justify their existence I did the opposite by stating that there is a better and actually fair solution. I said unfair and counterproductive because they produce prejudice. I didn’t say they are unfair because they produce prejudice that doesn’t even make any sense haha. Counterproductive and prejudice go together but the unfair part was a statement I thought needed little explanation. Stop assuming you are so much smarter than me and try to understand my points before responding, because you are wasting your words telling me I am wrong for points I never made.

    I believe hiring quotas produce more prejudice because they result in people thinking oh that person only got where they are in life because they are a minority (I am not saying I feel that way I am saying it is something you hear is it not?). I do also believe it is unfair to hire someone based on anything other then qualification which I have clearly stated. My solution is to eliminate the ability to discriminate when hiring and help people who earn a lower income get access to the same education as people who earn a higher income. If you do this then you don’t need any sort of diversity hiring nonsense because the work place would just naturally be diverse (or at least would reflect the over all population in the area percentage wise). I mean the only reason this wouldn’t work is if those groups would be inherently less qualified which you obviously don’t believe is true I hope? I never said they are unfair and nothing else should be done I said they are unfair and here is a better solution. I understand why they are their and it makes sense only if no other solution is possible. I think the root of the problem is in the poorer communities themselves. I understand the purpose of those hiring quotas is to bring groups that have been discriminated against out of the vicious cycle but I think a better way to do it would be to go directly to the low income communities and make sure they receive benefits that allow them to have all the same opportunities so they can get the job based on their own merit and then the work place will reflect diversity of the population naturally because potential has nothing to do with what minority group you belong to or don’t belong to.

    Tell me are my points not valid? If you feel they are not please explain why. I shouldn’t have even had to say all this because I am pretty sure we share the same fucking position on this asshole. So tell me how stupid I am and tell me why. For someone who feels they are so intelligent you sure do make a lot of assumption and a lot of false ones at that. Not very academic of you. You know nothing about how informed, educated, or how old I am Mr Gazoo.

  49. I’ll just use one little cherry picked example. “My solution is to eliminate the ability to discriminate when hiring” And you wonder why I ridicule you? If you don’t discriminate then why even interview? Just hire the first person who shows up with a lunch box. Your points are moot because you are seemingly incapable of avoiding cliche and Liberal mindset.  You wanna know why I change my stance in the middle of a disagreement with you?  Simply put, it’s because I may very well have never believed the argument I presented in the first place. My only real belief, my only real point, is almost never the point I start with. My primary goal when I deal with opposing liberals is to voice an opinion that I know they as Liberals will oppose, and then to do whatever is necessary to show how ridiculously pathetic, and politically correct their thought processes have become. In short, to discredit them. And I do it because I can.  And I do it because you people piss me off.  I’m not nearly as interested in you or your views as I am in demonstrating the stupidity of the Liberal mindset in general. No, I’m not terribly bright or very well educated. But I am strongly motivated.  And though there are liberals out there that can eat my fucking lunch in a debate, regardless of the subject, you sonny, ain’t one of those.  You would be better off  listening to both sides of the issues with a truly open mind for a change. Perhaps then you could argue more effectively.  The 99% are just fine.  Believe me.  They are far, far better off than the vast majority of the rest of the world. Quit crying. Go to work. Work hard. Listen. Learn. Think….. and then repeat. Over and over.  

  51. Thanks for the kind words Tolland, looking forward to your feedback. It is tempting to get sucked into the void of post-production, thanks for the reality check.

  52. Okay now it is time for you to eat it fool. I think you are unaware that there is more than one definition for the word discriminate. The definition you are referring to is Discriminate: to use good judgment. The definition I was using was Discriminate: to make a difference in treatment or favour on a basis other than individual merit. So yes I wonder why you ridicule me I mean you even used the word discriminate with the same meaning in your post before me when you said the thing about the qualified person being discriminated against (which I agree with). You can not discriminate during an interview(to make a difference in treatment or favour on a basis other than individual merit) while still discriminating (to use good judgment) in order to decide if the person is qualified for the job. You know what I meant or maybe you didn’t either way your example is embarrassing pick another dumb ass. My points moot? Try again seriously because we both know who is right with this example. Please keep trying pick another point tell me why it is wrong and if you show I am incorrect and I can’t show another flaw in your argument then I will admit defeat, until then tell me how my ass tastes bitch. I am sure you will just give me more to laugh at though.

    Seriously though what the fuck is wrong with your head I say I want equality I say I don’t want employers to discriminate(to make a difference in treatment or favour on a basis other than individual merit), and you say that thought process is pathetic? You have not shown anything wrong with my thought process you made one little point that I quickly proved wrong here and then you spent an entire paragraph rambling about how liberals are the bane of your existence. I am open minded. I am a man of science. If better information comes along my views about the world will change. I don’t hold any position without considering it carefully so please keep trying. I actively seek out the ideas on the other side other wise I wouldn’t be on this thread. You are the one assuming all liberals have an incorrect mindset you are the one with the closed mind trying in vain to prove how stupid I am but all you have done is exposed your own idiocy .Thankfully for you no one will read this. 

    You are something else quit crying? Our 99% is better off than those in 3rd world countries so we should just shut up and let the corporations buy our politicians and  have the same rights as people while they get away with horrendous crimes. You are the one who is obviously not listening to the other side if you think the OWS movement needs to just shut up.  

  53. Okay whatever you need to tell yourself you are dumb as shit seriously it is amazing how you can be so arrogant yet so wrong and so incoherent. Keep arguing with me and I will keep winning fool.

  54. You can’t seem to find a happy balance between brevity and extreme verbosity can you?  Somewhere in the middle lies the clean, clear, concise statement I believe you are looking for. That inability to be both accurate and concise, your Liberal feelings of righteous indignation, and your Liberal sense of entitlement are your three main problems.  Fourth would be your seemingly innate inability to win.  Fifth? I’m just gonna guess….. penis size?   Possibly your height?  Period?

    Happy Halloween!

    And calm down. I’ll bet that you were actually flinging slobber while you responded that last time.

  55. I have really enjoyed ripping your face off. Your non response speaks defeat. I am a little disappointed that you couldn’t give me more of a challenge but you are unable to pick apart my positions. Still think I am defending points I am not comfortable with? I love that you have had to resort to asking about dick size and periods. You really don’t want to take my challenge do you? Maybe you tried and were unable to? I was really enjoying this argument, but it is clear you are no longer able to defend yourself, and I don’t like to kick a guy when he is down. Maybe just one more. Tell me how my ass tastes bitch =).

    Happy Halloween to you too!

  56. Your dying throes are delicious.  That last little shudder before death you just performed is like a ballet to me.  Deny to the very end.  Convicted prisoners do it all the time.  I fucking love it. 

     

    Thank you for a wonderful (if predictable) little show.

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